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Lead BB's ?

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Airitis View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-12-2018 at 8:51am
I just acquired a Model 27 (I believe it is form the No.30 line). How can I tell if the gun was designed for use with lead BB's instead of steel? Patent date is Aug 1915.

Any thoughts?
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 9:40am
It should use lead shot but to double check, look at the shot tube for the dimple or wire as shown below. Image and quoted text from the Pyramyd Air blog.
 
 
"The top shot tube has a punched or swaged constriction (the round dimple) that serves to retain the lead BB before firing. It keeps the BB in place when the barrel is depressed. Bottom tube has a wire spring to serve the same purpose. "
 
FWIW, I'd love to find a model 27 that was poor cosmetically that was in excellent shape internally...
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Airitis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airitis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 11:15am
HMMMM....   This one doesn't have a spring loaded tube. It is gravity fed and needs to be since it is marked "500 Shot" The shot tube is made from a flat piece of steel that is twisted into a tube shape. First one I've seen but then the early ones are so different.
As for internals, this one seems to have a lot of punch but I haven't put a BB through it yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bavaria55n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2018 at 8:23am
It is the same if it is spring loaded or gravity feed. The newer tubes have the little spring that holds the BB in place until the airtube pushes it out, the older tubes do not. Today I think most use a magnet to hold the steel BB in place.
Gary
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2018 at 6:48pm
Yep, steel BB shot tubes made pre-magnet era have the retainer spring. Separate thing from the 25 feed spring (top photo)- gravity feed has it too.
 
 
 
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Airitis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airitis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2018 at 7:51pm
Okay. This much I know: Shot tube looks like the bottom pic without a spring. No place for a spring. I used a paper clip to try and detect a magnet. No apparent magnet. I don't see any dimples to put pressure on a lead BB.

As I stated before, the shot tube is made of a twisted piece of flat steel, resembling a paper roll from inside paper towels. I also noted that the "spoon shaped" cover for feeder hole is too high on the tube to be effective. The hole is always open. Now I'm wondering if it came from a different gun.
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-14-2018 at 3:24am
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Airitis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airitis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-14-2018 at 6:22pm
WOW! Cobalt, you never cease to amaze.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the fuse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-14-2018 at 9:22pm
I don't believe the shot tube should look like a " twisted piece of flat steel, resembling a paper roll from inside paper towels". It may have been over tightened or stuck at some point and twisted as someone forced it in or out. Any original shot tubes I have seen were rolled steel with a straight seam. In my earlier days, I myself have twisted a shot tube trying to get it out. 
All I'm for is the liberty of the individual.
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-14-2018 at 9:41pm
In case it might come in handy for you (and anyone doing a search that brings them here Smile), there's a lot of info on these vintage guns that was posted HERE by a fellow from New Zealand, Grant Stace. Grant has a checkered past w/some in the airgunning community but in my dealings w/him, I've found him to be a gentleman and an exceptionally talented machinist. Here's a trigger I got from him recently (it's for a Crosman):
 

 
He also did a Red Ryder cutaway for grins. More of it can be seen HERE. The red line shows how the back end of the spring of the cocked gun is at an angle where it contacts the spring anchor. This causes unnecessary friction between the spring and plunger tube, and this becomes even more critical as preload is added. A friend from the Highroad forum thread, hinz57,  made a bushing that corrects this. It's good for some serious MV on modified guns, but that's for another day! haha
 

 

 

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