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No 25 leather re-seal question
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jackdog View Drop Down
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Points: 324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2020 at 11:25pm
OK  good pointer on the Liquid Wrench... thanks.  Will be looking forward to your informative post (as always)...  Rick
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jackdog View Drop Down
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Points: 324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2020 at 11:33pm
Here is the front side of the plunger head that I have,, I do not see a crimped area like your plunger heads have.  Am I not seeing everything???  Just another question on this leather plunger which has plagued me for three years...  thanks.  Rick
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Originally posted by jackdog jackdog wrote:

Here is the front side of the plunger head that I have,, I do not see a crimped area like your plunger heads have.  Am I not seeing everything???  Just another question on this leather plunger which has plagued me for three years...  thanks.  Rick

Your assembly is like the one I posted earlier. If you look closely, on this type the air intake port is in the tube itself (see yellow circled area below). The intake hole being located near the base of the air tube combined with the assembly being rigidly held together cause many of them to weaken and fracture- as yours did. Daisy went to a "floating" air tube and synthetic piston in the mid-'50s to cure this issue and that is still in use today. You can read more about it from the patent, HERE.

  


I will defer to Gumslinger to explain the air intake path the other type uses. 

I suppose you know already, but in a pinch a synthetic piston can be used in place of the leather piston.

 
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Gumslinger View Drop Down
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Points: 386 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gumslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2020 at 11:39am
Rick, still getting the pics together for my upcoming post. But I wanted to jump in here quick because I find what you and Cobalt have done in posting your pictures VERY important. Your picture of the face of the 1920's seal is the first I have ever seen anywhere (believe me--I've looked!). Ditto for Cobalt's post. We need more pics like those to help discover the evolution of these parts and what needs to be done for repair or exchange.
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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For the record, the nickel plated 102-36 where the one I showed came from was made until 1942. So the early style was used until at least 1942. I believe it's possible the newer style Gumslinger showed was made to be more durable, but if that was the case, it still wasn't immune from breakage.


Ultimately a redesign to the floating air tube solved the problem- it was needed when Daisy went to the rubber seals. 
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Gumslinger View Drop Down
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Points: 386 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gumslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2020 at 3:42pm
These pictures show one type of Daisy No. 25 plunger head using leather washers. All of the examples come from guns with blued, engraved receivers, and wood stocks. They exhibit 5 patents. Mainsprings are generally copper-washed 29+/- coils. Maybe somebody can narrow down the application range for this style of plunger head. Thanks.
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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More excellent photos!!

Not sure about the number of patents stamped into them, but the blued wood 25s were made as late as 1952.

Any chance you could find the diameter of the wire used on the springs you mentioned? And are these round wire springs, or are they "flat wire" springs?
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Gumslinger View Drop Down
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Points: 386 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gumslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2020 at 7:34pm
Rick, I think this picture shows your model of leather washer. It shows it with the washer removed, so it is doable. Could you post more pics (in different angles) especially if it shows that little tab Cobalt's image demonstrated.
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Points: 386 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gumslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2020 at 9:11pm
Mark: (saying I did this right with my Harbor Freight caliper...)

This is from a copper-washed, flat wire, and flat-ground ends spring.

            --Length free =            8.25”

            --Length installed =    7.00”

            --Diameter OD =          0.75”  (13.30mm)

            --Diameter  ID  =        0.52”   (19.45 mm)

            --Spring size = Flat wire is 0.11” (2.94mm) wide (flat) by 0.07” (1.97mm) tall (thick)
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Well , pretty easy to see why the old guns hit harder , looks like no preload at all on a new one , almost like one of the springs off of a pop gun .
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