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No 25 leather re-seal question

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jackdog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 2:28pm
Jay, Very interesting.... I guess after reading that great info you provided  my plunger head is from the first patent variant.  Makes sense this was from my short throw, circa 1918...  I am going to post some other pictures to show (what I think was) the little protrusion or washer stop...
Don't know that it really was that or as Mark suggested something from the washer causing this to form.  It wasn't from knocking the washer off as it was in front of the washer....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 2:38pm
Here are two close-up photos of my plunger head... You can clearly see where the metal washer was and the leather washer.  The small protrusion was in front of the metal washer not behind it.  If the washer caused this to form it would have been formed when the washer was installed not taking it off, so who knows how it was formed or was it there intentionally to help stop the washer from jamming up onto the leather.????  You can also see the small "damaged area as I call it" on the edge of the plunger head.  Or is that a tab of some sort they put there?  Its shaped like a rectangle...





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 2:39pm
I wonder of the steel body might have been tinned before the washer was driven into place. The tinning would easily peel up like we're seeing. Possibly from the air tube assembly/sealing process, like if the assembled body with its pressed in air tube was dipped into solder to seal things up, leaving a thin tinning on the body that could be peeled up by the washer. Just thinking out loud here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 2:45pm
Mark, very well could be that...   Anyone who worked on these maybe could tell us if they were still around...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 9:17pm
I will go through my old parts and see what I have in the way of leather seals. I know I have 2 or 3 from the 111-40 (they're made like Gumslinger's), but I also have a leather piston with a broken air tube. I'm not positive but it may be the "flat front" type from a No. 25. I'll report back later with what I find.

Can someone come up with what to call the two different types we've seen so far? I'd say to call them 'early' and 'late', but I'm not 100% sure that's correct!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gumslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 10:06pm
I would say that is a safe bet: "early" and "late". But it might be better to say this was in three steps.
1915-1938 (Rick's style), 1938 to 1953, "air cap" style (mine), and 1953-present (neoprene seal and oil hole). These dates are approximate (based on patent application, not on actual factory installation dates). Also, I do not know if this applied across Daisy model lines--these changes were what I found while checking on the No.25 pump gun. Other models predated the No.25, so the early style may go way back in design--maybe even copied from another spring gun line...(Markham or the like). 
No.25 original patent below and a 1917 patent from another's invention. Check out the plunger heads.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2020 at 11:39pm
Jay.
I love those old Patent drawings.... We did good work 100 years ago!
Anyway I call mine the Machined plunger head,  yours the Crimped Plunger head and the newer ones, the Rubber Plunger Head. (MACHINED, CRIMPED, RUBBER)    I have another 1920 model 25 Which I HAVE NOT HAD THE INITIATIVE to disassemble.  But I am getting close to doing that , to see what kind of plunger it has.  It works just fine so the plunger should be in good shape.   Will report back with anything significant.
It maybe an intact Leather plunger since there is no "oil Here" hole and it is old.
Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gumslinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2020 at 12:09am
Rick, I have been going blind looking at old patents trying to find one for your machined plunger. I went back thru LeFever's pre-Daisy days, CF Hamilton's designs (original creator), etc. I can find nothing specific. I am beginning to wonder if leather-backed plungers go so far back, and were so widely used that the original patents (if any) weren't even relevant to the Daisy designers. Our Daisy patents were simply to protect their specific improvements over time. 
If you do tear into your other 25, please share the info with us. I cannot find any info on the innards of Daisy's of your vintage anywhere. Thanks, Jay. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2020 at 9:54pm
Jay... Thanks for your extra work to find info on the machined plunger.... I am pretty sure what I have is original to the gun, so they must have used this in many of their guns from that era.  One thing I have learned about Daisy they reused a lot of their technology (and advertising, hang tags, etc.) for a lot of their rifles in the early days.  I see JG sells a leather plunger head for the 25.  I have been reluctant to order it not knowing exactly what it is.  They have no picture of the plunger so to me it is pot luck at $40 plus shipping what exactly it is.  Anybody you know bought one from them?  I really do not care if I get a leather plunger exactly like mine, just a leather plunger , and not rubber.

My wife is a teacher and since last Friday now home as they shut the school down due to the China Virus.  Getting some good eats since she is home all day to plan and cook dinner, but man she has gotten  together a nice Honey-do list for me.  Kinda driving me crazy ,  LOL, cause I want to go tear apart that other 25.  Will get to it eventually..  Thanks for the update..
rick


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-24-2020 at 12:21am
Jay , thanks for the email information you sent on the leather  plunger from JG.  Will check it out.  Now that they have a picture of the item they are selling I will consider buying one...  thank you.Rick

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