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Plastic stocks |
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Gumslinger ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March-20-2019 Location: North Florida Points: 400 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: March-29-2019 at 8:13pm |
Hello,
newbie here. I picked up a mid-fifties Red Ryder and got the Daisy bug. The
gun itself cocks & fires, but the plastic buttstock is as flat &
twisted as a toothpaste tube. Needing a replacement, I sought to ID what I had
(and why it warped so badly). No visible markings, so I filleted it with a
Dremel into two mirror halves. This stock is a four-piece item: The stock body
itself, (no markings), a false-hammer insert (no markings), a butt plate: logo
MPC 2, and a trigger-spring mounted on a insert also marked MPC 2. Oddly,
the plastic fore end is a crudely marked MPC 3. A logo search took me to Multiple Products Corp, a former maker
of all things plastic, but no apparent ties to Daisy. A Forum search did not yield
any clues. So, is this such an old topic that it is no longer discussed? Has
anyone ever tackled the evolution of these plastic stocks? By the by, I learned
more about warped plastics researching this buttstock than anyone needs to
know--including a warning possibly relevant to Daisy collectors. Thanks for any
input. |
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JCN
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cobalt327 ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November-15-2013 Points: 3046 |
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I remember MPC from model car kits. I doubt there's much known about the evolution of plastic Daisy stocks, could be a tough nut to crack!
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BSAGuy ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January-30-2019 Location: Central NC Points: 518 |
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Hello and welcome toDaisyTalk, Gumslinger. Great to have you here. If you can manage it, please post some pics of your dissected stock, that would be interesting to us all.
I would like to read your "warning possibly relevant to Daisy collectors." That might help some of us avoid future stock problems. Like cobalt327, I also remember MPC model car kits from the 1970's. MPC was a division of General Mills (think Cheerios, etc.) and MPC owned Lionel trains from 1970 to 1986. Here is a link with more dope on that for anyone who is interested. |
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Be Prepared
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Bavaria55n ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() Joined: October-12-2015 Location: CentralIllinois Points: 747 |
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When Daisy first started using plastic stocks they had problems with them warping.
I have a 97 that is a couple of inches to one side. Amazing that it could move that far without cracking or breaking. Not sure if it was the composition of the plastic or improper curing or both? They gradually got it under control. Fore ends are also seen with each end drooping away from the gun. Gary
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Gumslinger ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March-20-2019 Location: North Florida Points: 400 |
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Thanks
for the replies. I’ll post the pictures soon. The
keyword is Cellulose Acetate (CA). This was the newest plastic concoction in
the late 1940s. It applied well to the new ‘injection molding’ process. By the
mid-1950s problems started to arise. Modern forums covering vintage CA warping
include model trains, model cars, Legos, even poker chips and playing cards.
The chemical giant Bayer in Germany warned CA products should not be stored
above 150-degrees?! In Mr. Dunathan’s book he mentions Daisy’s failure with “Fibron plastic”. [One Google result for
Fibron was for a knife handle company…]. But on a 1950s poster for the Red
Ryder, it pointed out a “Fiberon”
forearm & stock as a new feature. [Again, this word was a dead end, either
as a 1950’s brand, a material, or a company]. Maybe it was a proprietary
formula for Daisy? As I mentioned in the prior post, my twisted stock had MPC
logos, source unknown. CA was also used in ‘modern art’ objects. This is where
the true nature of CA is revealed. Plastic preservation
has had some serious money thrown at it at the museum level. To
summarize, their findings are that once warping, etc, has begun, you can
neither stop, or repair it. At best, you can store it in a way to slow down the
process. According to the experts, one of the biggest factors in CA’s demise is
moisture (humidity). Worse, the gases released from CA were destructive to
other materials stored with it. Specifically, it “corroded metals, and damaged
fabrics”. One museum lists it as a ‘malignant plastic’. Another site says the
best environment for CA items is in a “well-ventilated area, with the
temperature below 68-degrees, and humidity controlled between 30-40%. Thankfully
the next step forward in plastic was polystyrene, which was stable, and could
be molded in even finer detail--think: wood grain plastic stocks. I suspect
Daisy caught on quickly, as did the model makers and other commercial
enterprises. As an aside, there is a model maker who still uses CA (maybe a
more modern version?) to cast model horses. From their website: Breyer Models
are made of Cellulose Acetate. The composition of cellulose
acetate will not allow it to be glued with everyday adhesives like Elmer’s
glue, model cement, or Crazy glue. For best results, it is recommended
that you use acetone to repair your models.
This will soften the plastic and allow the broken pieces to
actually bond together. They go on to say
the consumer can straighten bent parts of the model with the heat from a hair
dryer. |
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JCN
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BSAGuy ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January-30-2019 Location: Central NC Points: 518 |
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Thanks for that information, Gumslinger. Very interesting. From what I have read here, warping of Daisy stocks also seems to be associated with long term storage (think a closet) of the gun with muzzle up/stock down. It makes sense to me that if a gun is leaned against a wall or corner with the weight on the butt that would cause warping.
I wondered about all the drooping Model 94 fore arms that I have seen on eBay and your post and Bavaria55n's explains that phenomenon.
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Be Prepared
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cobalt327 ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November-15-2013 Points: 3046 |
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Good info guys! Thanks Gumslinger for posting your findings- very interesting.
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Iceman ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February-09-2012 Location: Missouri Points: 427 |
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I have five Daisy rifles with plastic stocks. Three are lever guns with the plastic forearms. The other two are pump style guns. I have had others over the years with the plastic forearms. The forearms have warped enough that they come loose at the front. I have managed to jerry-rigged them enough to stay in place. I really do not like plastic stocks and forearms and avoid them as much as possible, however, there are some that I like well enough to put up with the plastic. The "plastic" ones I have are the (1972) Model 25 pump, Model 107 Trombone pump, 1894 Texas Ranger, Model 142 Defender, and Model 98 Golden Eagle (Boxed Set).
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Gumslinger ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March-20-2019 Location: North Florida Points: 400 |
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The reason I posted this info is because
I could not find any other information on plastic stocks. I
found the possibility of further damage alarming. Number 1, there are no
replica plastic stocks; so what is out there is all that there will ever be.
Number 2, I’ve seen some beautiful, seemingly undamaged BB guns with CA stocks at
sale or auction. I presume they were either well-cared for, or luckily well-stored
all these years. BUT, if the new owner is not aware of the proper care needed,
these stocks too, in their new environment, may warp into oblivion. I
am new to this Daisy stuff, but I would hope to preserve the remaining plastic-stock
Daisy’s to be there for the next generation of collectors. Thanks guys. |
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JCN
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Airitis ![]() Red Ryder Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-06-2016 Location: PA Points: 1198 |
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I've sen many lever guns with warped forearms but have only had a few straight ones. Now I know why.
Gumslinger, I'm so glad that you have found this information. It's like waiting for a bad event... as if one day we'll wake up to a train load of daisys without stocks or forearms and no hope of replacing them. On the other hand, if replacements were to be produced, the guns still would not be "original". I think that reproducing original styled wood stocks and forearms would be valuable as a business venture. At least the guns would be in usable condition once again. Even plastic or fiberglass copies would be sometimes welcome. Any thoughts? |
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