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Cause of 1894 right receiver damage?

Printed From: Daisy Museum
Category: Daisy Airguns
Forum Name: Questions
Forum Description: To help users communicate about Daisy Aiguns
URL: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10287
Printed Date: March-28-2024 at 7:09am
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Topic: Cause of 1894 right receiver damage?
Posted By: cobalt327
Subject: Cause of 1894 right receiver damage?
Date Posted: August-13-2022 at 12:43pm
I am hoping to learn the cause of the infamous broken tang on the right receiver half of the 1894 that is seen so often. Also, is there a way to prevent it? I believe I asked Twocompassheads about this, but for the life of me I can't remember what was said!

The reason for my curiosity is, after 3-1/2 years of looking at it, I want to actually reseal my 1894 so I can finally enjoy shooting it. I have all the parts and even detailed instructions (thanks for that, DG!), but to be honest working on the 1894 intimidates me!

The photos below show the area in question.


 






Replies:
Posted By: stevec
Date Posted: August-13-2022 at 5:43pm
Good question. I have worked on the 1894s years ago.They can really intimadate you. They are complicated but once you learn about them they are not to bad. The problem is you need to keep working on them as not to forget anything, a lot of parts and procedures to working on this rifle and they are not all exactly alike. Used to be a guy named Hugh that lived in the north west that was a wonder with these rifles. He knew it all but that was years ago. He taught me a lot
Stevec


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-13-2022 at 10:08pm
   Mark, go for it.  If you have an issue, I will help you.  like Steve said there is a procedure to assembly that will make it go together smooth.  The info I sent you should help.  
     The tangs are weak and the stock is pushed in-between them and it's a tight fit.  also the hammer stop is mounted to the right receiver and that also rests in a pocket on the left receiver.  So a lot of vibration is transferred to these parts on every shot.  I have taken about 200 guns apart and have seen a lot of damage to all of the tangs and the hammer stops.  Another thing is probably the way kids cocked the guns, they probably put the stock on the ground or by their foot and lifted the lever to cock it and put pressure on the stock that transferred to the tangs of the receivers.  One other thing is firing the gun with the abutment seal stuck to the plunger seal, this creates a lot of vibration and a good jolt through the gun.  It will also cause the spot welds on the barrel bushing to break and shove the bushing forward and damage the barrel with the feed block. 
   Here's some pictures of the clearance and the way it's laid out on the receivers and the stock.  I used two different colored receivers to show the way they sit and mount on the barrel and stock.



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Keep On Plinking


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-13-2022 at 10:25pm
Here is a repair that I did on a 1961 receiver that had a broken tang.  Grind the metal a little to get a rough surface to bond the epoxy to and I laid a piece of stainless wire in the corner and covered it with the epoxy.  This is a good repair, but I wouldn't trust it on a gun you want to shoot a lot.  The early 61 and 62 receivers were very weak and cracked all of the time, I'm not sure when exactly when they put on the heavier receivers.  Just make sure there is clearance wear the epoxy goes so it won't rub on the barrel assembly.







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Keep On Plinking


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-14-2022 at 9:58am
Thank you for the excellent description and photos- it helps a lot! And for the encouragement. It really is high time I get it shooting!

On my gun, I used a layer of adhesive-backed rubber "anti-skid" material to soften the hard metal-to-metal hit of the hammer on the hammer stop you mentioned. If nothing else it should be quieter when I get to shoot it. Right now though, I'm not firing it with the abutment seal riding the air tube.


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-14-2022 at 11:51am
    Mark, good idea on the rubber material you used on the hammer stop, anything to stop the metal-to-metal slap.  Could you post a picture of it and where you got the material and what is it originally used for.  This would help in the search.

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Keep On Plinking


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-15-2022 at 2:13am
I'd be glad to. Photos will be coming.

I used an adhesive backed rubbery anti skid material, like would be used under a coaster or a figurine displayed on a glass surface, that sort of thing. It's relatively thin (~ 0.070") and I've seen it in cut-to-size sheets or 'dots' of various sizes. IIRC, I originally got it from Home Depot or possibly Ace to use on the back of a calculator. I applied it using tweezers.

Then there's a material sold for foot care called 'mole skin'- it will work, but has a flesh tone color that would probably need to be dealt with. Thin self adhesive felt would also work.


Posted By: MarvMar
Date Posted: August-15-2022 at 4:29pm
Mark, Patiently waiting for your report on the 1894 rebuild. Going to share my experience with that model. Years ago, before ebay allowed the sale of BB guns, I was buying at auctions, garage sales, etc., some old 1894 parts guns, thinking I wold make a fortune rebuilding them and then selling. After the second or third tear down I started to realize that putting them back together was a different story.  In the years that followed I parted out and sold probably 20 or more 1894s. Actually I have all the parts of my last one on ebay right now. Well, end of story...I have NEVER been able to reassemble and successfully restore a single one. After my graduate degrees from Stanford and my fellowships to Cornell, and 50 years of running my own businesses, I don't consider my self an idiot, but I still can't fix an 1894. GOOD LUCK !!!!

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Marv, NW OH


Posted By: stevec
Date Posted: August-15-2022 at 5:50pm
That was good Marv. Made me feel real good as I have repaired some in the past. Also destroyed some doing it lol


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-16-2022 at 11:33am
Yeah I expect to run into a snag or two, but fortunately I have you guys to ask for help!


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-16-2022 at 6:06pm
    Mark, I tried to send you an email but it came back.  Send me one so I can send you something to help on the rebuild.   Dennis

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Keep On Plinking


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-16-2022 at 9:41pm
    Never mind Mark, I figured it out.  I added another L to Cobalt and made it Colbalt.

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Keep On Plinking


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-17-2022 at 4:21pm
Thanks a ton for the info, Dennis- big help!

I was wondering why the hammer has to slam into the receiver so hard? For that matter, why does the hammer have to cycle at all? If there's a way to allow the gun to shoot without cocking the hammer, I'd be all for that. Other than acting as a sort of safety, it serves no purpose to my way of thinking.

So, what I'm getting at is, is there a way to keep the gun functional w/o the hammer cycling?


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: August-19-2022 at 5:15pm
While we're on the subject of repairing the 1894, how hard is it to find a muzzle plug for one with an octagon barrel? Yup, I might be the only person who actually needs one. 🙄

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-19-2022 at 5:28pm
Don't hold me to it, but I do seem to remember seeing them a while back on ebay. They were made by 3D printing.


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: August-19-2022 at 5:32pm
Thanks Mark, I'll give it a look.
Guess what happens when you try to shoot an 1894 without the muzzle?   The BB stays in and the shot tube comes out!   ðŸ˜†

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-22-2022 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by twocompassheads twocompassheads wrote:

    Mark, good idea on the rubber material you used on the hammer stop, anything to stop the metal-to-metal slap.  Could you post a picture of it and where you got the material and what is it originally used for.  This would help in the search.
This is a sheet of the rubbery "feet" used to keep things from sliding on slick surfaces, like my calculator.


This is padding applied to my 1894. I believe the material on it atm is a little different. Like a thin self-adhesive felt.
Chances are good that any material used like this will need periodic replacement.




Posted By: Bob1774
Date Posted: August-23-2022 at 2:53pm
Go for it!  

Dennis assisted me with a complete tear down and reassembly two years ago.  While they are very different from traditional BB/pellet guns, they are not impossible, just tedious.

I've done four now, and all work very well.  The reassembly of the trigger and the various springs can be a nice little puzzle.  Take photos as you go.
Also, try using a guide with directions, as if you assemble out of order, you get to start all over again!  Of course, that helps with practice.

I wondered about a stronger spring for the '94 as it was never a strong shooter, but the stress issues are already there and would probably only be made worse.  This was the first BB gun I had as a child and I just enjoy shooting it indoors at a box target to bring back the memories.  I was lucky to find a mint, first year example made in 11/61, actually on my birthday according to Daisy records.  That one I have hanging with the revolver that went with the series.  I shoot the others.


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: August-24-2022 at 12:18am
It would be great to have it do at least 300 fps. Otherwise, hitting any of my backyard hanging targets will be hard. So I'm considering using a small preload spacer for the spring- only talking 3/8" here, so it might not do much more than restore the stock performance if the original spring has sacked over the years. And I'll use an air tube with a 3/32" ID. I don't plan on running a lot of ammo through it, heck, it's been months since I've shot my BB guns. Got to do something about that, for sure!


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-24-2022 at 3:58pm
Airitis,  
   Russ are you talking about the end of the shot tube?  You're missing the octagon end of the shot tube?  They usually are bonded or soldered on the tube.  They could be pressed on but I'm not sure, never really checked into that.  The only thing that holds the shot tube into any 1894 from 1961 to 1986 is the screw on the magazine tube that goes through the magazine plug and into the barrel and screws into the shot tube which you can see in the pictures.   One picture shows the standard shot tube and the octagon shot tube for the 1894.
    Send me an e-mail    den4570@yahoo.com
That way you can send me a picture of the end of your gun so I can see if all the parts are there.  I have a new octagon shot tube that I will sell you.  As a matter of fact, it is the one in the pictures, pretty nice for 50+ years old.



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Keep On Plinking


Posted By: twocompassheads
Date Posted: August-24-2022 at 5:08pm
Airitis
    Russ, I just discovered something.  I took a couple of damaged shot tubes and put them in the vise to find out how the end was attached to the tube.  Tapped them with a chisel and hammer and they pop right off, I didn't know they were pressed fit, always thought they were soldered on or bonded in some way.  Tapped them back on and they are a tight fit.  You learn something every day, see you can teach an old dog new tricks.  If the screw is in the end holding the shot tube in, then the tube can't go forward or backwards.



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Keep On Plinking



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