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99B Champion abutment?

Printed From: Daisy Museum
Category: Daisy Airguns
Forum Name: Questions
Forum Description: To help users communicate about Daisy Aiguns
URL: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10424
Printed Date: March-28-2024 at 6:36am
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Topic: 99B Champion abutment?
Posted By: Airitis
Subject: 99B Champion abutment?
Date Posted: January-29-2023 at 6:50pm
So, we all know that the wide frame Daisy's come in a few variations.   I've been lulled into resealing most of these with seals from the model 25. I have on my workbench a model 99 Champion needing an abutment washer.   I have a few model 25 washers but they are too small and fall right through from the breach to muzzle.   Because it has a step-down barrel, I thought I could sub an abutment-shot tube from a new Red Ryder.   It's too big.   I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but what? I'm seriously considering making my own guts for this one. 🤔

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Air-It-Is



Replies:
Posted By: Handy_Cruiser
Date Posted: January-31-2023 at 8:25pm
I am a novice when it comes to rebuilding Daisys.  Of the two I just rebuilt, one was a 1973 Model 99 Champion.  I suspect what you have with the step-down barrel is a Model 99B.  I believe it's very different when it comes to the abutment.  A member named "Old George" appears to have modified the abutment in one to use the Model 25 stuff.  You can read about it here.

 http://forum.daisymuseum.com/model-499-and-red-ryder_topic9999.html

The expert on this is likely member Cobalt327.  He's helped me.


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: January-31-2023 at 8:48pm
Thanks for the link, H_C

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: February-01-2023 at 9:47am
Unfortunately all I can offer is speculation- I'm thinking wide frame guns that use a steel abutment disc are their own animal, so to speak. I've emailed Shane for his input but he doesn't work with the wide frame as much as the others, but he may know something just the same. I'll post back after I hear from him.


Posted By: Handy_Cruiser
Date Posted: February-01-2023 at 2:42pm
JG has a manual for several of the "B" Model Daisy's here:

https://www.jgairguns.biz/repair-manuals-c-46_798/dai95bfsm-download-factory-service-manual-for-daisy-models-95b-p-13145.html

And here's one that specifically includes the 99B.  If like most of the others, it should have a parts list.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154642954268?hash=item240170381c


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-01-2023 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by cobalt327 cobalt327 wrote:

Unfortunately all I can offer is speculation- I'm thinking wide frame guns that use a steel abutment disc are their own animal, so to speak. I've emailed Shane for his input but he doesn't work with the wide frame as much as the others, but he may know something just the same. I'll post back after I hear from him.

That's a possibility I was hoping against.   I did have one crazy idea though.   Braze a model 25 abutment to a steel washer. Then spin grind the diameter to the proper size.   
Another crazy idea is to spin grind the diameter of a 1938B Red Ryder shot tube/abutment to the proper size and eliminate the removable shot tube.   I may have to meditate on this one a little.

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: February-02-2023 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Airitis Airitis wrote:

 That's a possibility I was hoping against.   I did have one crazy idea though.   Braze a model 25 abutment to a steel washer. Then spin grind the diameter to the proper size.   
Another crazy idea is to spin grind the diameter of a 1938B Red Ryder shot tube/abutment to the proper size and eliminate the removable shot tube.   I may have to meditate on this one a little.
Shane (good guy that he is) says he's willing to dissect a wide frame to extract and measure the abutment washer/disc diameter so we can know for sure what the deal is. He might do a video on it, too. 


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-02-2023 at 9:58am
Well, if he does, and if I were a sporting man, I might lay odds the diameter is in the vicinity of .85...... give or take a few.
Let's stand by.

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: February-02-2023 at 12:58pm
When I mentioned who was asking he said, "You should have said that sooner. Russ will get his question answered today." Thumbs Up

If possible, let's get the dimensions for as many as possible.


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-02-2023 at 1:39pm
Yeah, Shane is a good guy. I just hope he doesn't destroy a good gun to satisfy my curiosity.   I'd feel responsible

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: February-04-2023 at 11:30am
I see now this is about a 99B. Had I seen that, I would have told you the 'B' models, including the 95B and 99B use the same diameter shot tube abutment as the 1938B. I own a 99B that I replaced the shot tube with one from a new RR. So no idea what is going on with your gun...

Anyway, here's what Shane found: "I snatched an abutment washer out of one of my project Model 96's and it measures .80 diameter. Same as the Model 25 and the #111 Model 40. Did he get the abutment washer out of the gun he's working on or did he source it elsewhere? If it measures .80-ish it ought to fit the compression chamber as long as the locking tabs are intact. I put up a video on this over at my channel. It was a real bitch getting it re-installed!"


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-04-2023 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by cobalt327 cobalt327 wrote:

I see now this is about a 99<b style="">B. Had I seen that, I would have told you the 'B' models, including the 95B and 99B use the same diameter shot tube abutment as the 1938B. I own a 99B that I replaced the shot tube with one from a new RR. So no idea what is going on with your gun...
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">
I sourced it from a model 25 but the 1938B seems too big. It should have fit but didn't.   So, I'm not done fiddling with it yet.   Stay tuned!
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">Anyway, here's what Shane found: "I snatched an abutment washer out of one of my project Model 96's and it measures .80 diameter. Same as the Model 25 and the #111 Model 40. Did he get the abutment washer out of the gun he's working on or did he source it elsewhere? If it measures .80-ish it ought to fit the compression chamber as long as the locking tabs are intact. I put up a video on this over at my channel. It was a real bitch getting it re-installed!"






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Air-It-Is


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-07-2023 at 7:30pm
Well, Well, Well. I have solved the question of the abutment!   
First of all, it is definitely a 99B. Side loading port, lower trigger pivot, step down barrel shroud etc. This one has been totally stripped and then some.   No guts whatsoever.   So, why didn't the newer 1938B shot tube/abutment fit? The rear end of the inner diameter was crushed just enough to inhibit insertion. I used an inside caliper and an improvised swedge to rectify the issue.
Thanks to all who participated in the head scratching!    

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-08-2023 at 7:48pm
If anyone would like to see an explanation of this gun and the abutment issue, I just posted a video on my YouTube channel: Daisy lever gun fun.
Let me know what you think.

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Air-It-Is


Posted By: Airitis
Date Posted: February-09-2023 at 4:42pm
FWIW, the Daisy Museum gave me some info about this gun.   The 99B was only produced in 1979 and they don't even have an example of it in the museum.   Must be an oddity. I used the lot number, J905749, to verify the date of September 1979.

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Air-It-Is



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