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Buzz Barton no model number

Printed From: Daisy Museum
Category: Daisy Airguns
Forum Name: Questions
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URL: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10578
Printed Date: March-03-2024 at 10:43pm
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Topic: Buzz Barton no model number
Posted By: siosalach
Subject: Buzz Barton no model number
Date Posted: November-13-2023 at 11:26am
I have a Buzz Barton 195 with no model number on the sight tube-Just Daisy No. 195.  Can anyone tell me what year(s) this gun was produced?



Replies:
Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: November-13-2023 at 10:32pm
There were two Buzz Barton 195 models.   The stock is the easiest way to tell which one you may have.   In 1932 there was a 195 model 32 that had a paper decal on the left side of the stock. In 1936 there was a 195 model 36 that had a branded Buzz Barton logo on the left side of the stock.
There are, of course, several differences between the two models but the stock is the giveaway for which model you may have. Sorry without a picture or more details. It’s hard to tell which one you may have.

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Aim Straight


Posted By: siosalach
Date Posted: November-14-2023 at 1:45pm
Hello:   The gun has the internal end cap, Lasso type burned stock (not decal), the barrel is straight and blued and the sight tube has "No. 195 Daisy" engraved on it (not No.195 Daisy Model 36")


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: November-14-2023 at 3:01pm
According to Gary Garber's book, it's known as a 195 model 33 Buzz Barton Special because it came out in 1933. Made until 1935. The sight tube should have "No. 195 Daisy" and 2 patent numbers along with Daisy Mfg. Co. and the Plymouth address. Basically the same gun as the paper label model but with the different buttstock.


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: November-15-2023 at 12:18am
OK  Here are pics of the BUZZ BARTON rifles.  There were three models:  195 model 32 (first one 1932).
Then the 103 model 33 ( in 1933) . then the 195 model 36 (last one in 1936).
The 103 / 33 was by far the best gun of the three and is the most desirable.  
Sorry, Mark I never heard of a 195/33 model.  All the hang tags and paperwork I have say 195 model 32.

Here are the two 195 models, top one is model 36 with branded stock, bottom is model 32 with paper label.


here are parts list from hang tags for model 32 and 36

Original Tag - says model 32


my reproduction model 32



model 36



here is pic of 103 stock - branded star



here is pic of parts list from hang tag











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Aim Straight


Posted By: Bryno
Date Posted: November-15-2023 at 6:30am
Thanks for the crash course Jack I found that really interesting

Bryan


Posted By: teerex.otw
Date Posted: November-15-2023 at 9:41am
Very cool stuff !
But I have a question on the 103-33; were the barrel shroud and receiver actually 2 separate pieces as shown on the hang tag drawing ? (never seen one up-close-and-personal…very rare in this part of the country).


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: November-15-2023 at 10:55am
Originally posted by teerex.otw teerex.otw wrote:

Very cool stuff !
But I have a question on the 103-33; were the barrel shroud and receiver actually 2 separate pieces as shown on the hang tag drawing ? (never seen one up-close-and-personal…very rare in this part of the country).

YES TWO SEPARATE PIECES.  THE 103 IS A REVERSE COCKER , WHEN YOU PULL THE LEVER DOWN IT MOVES THE PLUNGER BACK (NO RESISTANCE) TO LOCK IN COCKED POSITION.  BRINGING LEVER BACK TO START POSITION PROVIDES THE SPRING TENSION.

RICK


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Aim Straight


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: November-15-2023 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by jackdog jackdog wrote:

Sorry, Mark I never heard of a 195/33 model.
The 195 gun in question is shown in plate 5-136 on page 245 of the softcover version of Gary Garber's book. In it he says, "This air rifle was not offered until 1933 and is commonly known as the "Model 33", although this marking does not appear on the gun."

I hope this helps clarify things. 


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: November-16-2023 at 12:11am
OK Mark, I see what you’re saying cause I looked at Gary‘s book and read that passage which I’ve never read before. To me it looks like the original 195/32 with a branded stock. So I’m gonna go back and look at my parts list and hangtags, and see if I can see if I have information to identify what Daisy called that “195-33” if they ever published a parts list for that particular variation. I know Gary said it was referred to as the “195-33” ,but what did Daisy actually call it . To me that’s the question I would like to have answered. In my mind, I think they did call it a 195 -32 but I’m not convinced of that. It could be Ralph actually has the “195-33” since he indicated it had a branded stock, and a straight barrel. Not a step down barrel like the 195-36. Nice detective work on your part.

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Aim Straight


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: November-18-2023 at 3:23am
Rick, I agree with your thought that it may have used the 195-32 hang tag, given that it seems to be basically a 195-32 with a different logo.


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: November-30-2023 at 1:19pm


As far as the question about the Daisy 195/33,  I have seen no documented information by Daisy of a 195 model 33. They could have designated a 195/33 somewhere but I can not find anything.   I have looked at all tags I have images of, parts catalogs and Daisy ADs from 1932 to 1938.  What I believe is there was a 195/32 model and then that model was updated with a branded stock (got rid of the paper decal stock) but Daisy never changed any documentation from the original 195 release, and did not give the 195 a new model number until 1936 when a new design (and totally different gun) was introduced - the 195 model 36.  Instead they referred to the original 195 (32/33) as the 195 with no model number. You can see this in the 1938 parts list.


Below are images of tags and parts list from 1938.

The two tags are different with the titles varying by font size, and one part number difference (the shooting barrel).  Do not know if that is because they changed something on the gun  itself or just changed the part number.  The stock images on the tags still show the paper label.  None show the branded stock as documented in Gary's book as the one referred to as the 195/33.  But daisy was somewhat lazy in updating parts list images...

( believe this tag is post 1932.... say  1933 -1938 because of the shooting barrel part number)



(I believe this tag is from 1932/1933)




The following images are scans from a Daisy 1938-May 1st PARTS CATALOG.
WHAT I NOTICED FROM THIS IS:  (and all my assumptions)
The 195 Buzz parts list in 1938 catalog (with no model number) has the same parts list as the first tag above ( with the small model number 32 title).  I would assume that tag is from the later year's rather than from 1932 (the one we refer to the 195/33?????).
The 195 tag with the big 32 model number is then the earlier one (most likely the one referred to as 195/32).
Interesting Daisy did not refer a model number to the first Buzz model in this parts catalog.
195 parts list (with no model number) shows the complete gun with the branded stock, but parts images show the stock with the paper label.  ????
Both tags and the catalog parts lists use the same part number for the stock.  Don't know how you be able to specify the paper label stock or branded stock if you were ordering one?








Just to complete all the parts lists, here is the parts list for the 103 model 33


page from the 1938 catalog showing  the 195 parts list








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Aim Straight


Posted By: Bryno
Date Posted: November-30-2023 at 3:39pm
Thanks for posting all that information it seems like it's an awful lot of work. I truly appreciate your guys knowledge.

Bry


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: November-30-2023 at 11:42pm
Thanks Brian it took me several weeks to figure all this stuff out. Still am not sure about a 195 model 33 Daisy or whether it’s just a 195 model 32 with a branded stock.

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Aim Straight


Posted By: Bryno
Date Posted: December-01-2023 at 6:23am
Well all I know is now I want to buzz Barton.


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: December-01-2023 at 8:43am
Reading between the lines of the passage in Gary Garber's book, when it says "This air rifle was not offered until 1933 and is commonly known as the "Model 33", although this marking does not appear on the gun.", I believe the reference to "Model 33" is from an enthusiast or collector standpoint, and wasn't meant to say it was an official Daisy designation.


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: December-01-2023 at 11:32pm
Mark, I agree 100% with you on the fact that it was probably just an enthusiast collector name for that particular variation.   I do have about 20 ads from 1932 to 1935 for the buzz Barton Daisy gun and in 1933.they started to say that it had a branded stock but still called it the 195. With no model number stipulated..

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Aim Straight


Posted By: Bryno
Date Posted: December-02-2023 at 9:50am
Looking for a candidate to purchase and it appears that the 103/33 was a reverse cocker?
Bryan


Posted By: jackdog
Date Posted: December-02-2023 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by Bryno Bryno wrote:

Looking for a candidate to purchase and it appears that the 103/33 was a reverse cocker?
Bryan



Yes it is

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Aim Straight



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