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dating a No 111 Model 40

Printed From: Daisy Museum
Category: Daisy Airguns
Forum Name: Questions
Forum Description: To help users communicate about Daisy Aiguns
URL: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4646
Printed Date: November-17-2018 at 5:33am
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Topic: dating a No 111 Model 40
Posted By: rdixon
Subject: dating a No 111 Model 40
Date Posted: January-30-2012 at 10:02pm

I would like to date a No 111 Model 40 -  Plymouth

 

Trigger and guard are cast iron, stamped Red Ryder in wooden stock.  I believe it is a 1946...




Replies:
Posted By: oneandgone
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 8:45am
If it has the blued barrel and forearm bands and a cast lever then you are correct.


Posted By: stevec
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 10:05am
Might depend on the rear sight.If it had an adjustable rear sight it could be as early as 1942
stevec


Posted By: oneandgone
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 5:44pm
Did they not use the copper bands in 42? I was under the impression that 40-42 all had them.


Posted By: rdixon
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 6:36pm
It does have blued barrel and forearm band.  fixed rear sight, cast lever (not painted)
 
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u399/rndixon/RedRyder11140pic2.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u399/rndixon/RedRyder11140pic2.jpg
 
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u399/rndixon/RedRyder11140pic1.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u399/rndixon/RedRyder11140pic1.jpg


Posted By: oneandgone
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 7:03pm
Yes, appears to be a 46 to me. It has large top of stock screw as well which is indicative of a 46+ gun.
 
I double checked the notoriously incorrect blue book, and also double checked the Daisy-King site and you're right Steve. 1942 RR's have blued bands and an adjustable sight. I don't know how I missed that before. Looks like I have another gun I need to find...


Posted By: rdixon
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 7:12pm
did you mean 42 had copper?  i think i read pre WWII had copper.  Also did they (pre WWII) have 'burned in' Red Ryder, not pressed in?


Posted By: oneandgone
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 7:34pm
I thought the 42 had copper bands as well, but it looks like I was wrong and only 40-41 had them. I really can't tell much difference in the stock logo between my copper banded gun and my 46. They both have the logo pressed into the stock. I've been googling to find more pics of the stocks on copper banded guns and that appears to be the way they were. Seems odd to me since the Buzz B guns that were branded have a flat logo.


Posted By: willielumplump
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 7:43pm
Another feature to check out is the shot tube; at the end with the thread that seats it over the air tube, there is a loading chute that the BBs follow to the loading point; the narrow channel (1940-1942) is indicative of the very early variations, and the wider loading chute (1947-1954) the latter versions.  This gem of information came from Gary Garber's outstanding book, "An Encyclopedia of Daisy Plymouth Guns," which sadly, is out of print. 
Additionally there was a brief time when the Red Ryder logo on the stock was silk-screened, estimated to be about 1000 of them, either in 1941 or 1942, because the machine that burned the logo into the stock had broke down.
 
When I acquire a new/used specimen, I always inspect the shot tube, checking for the BB retaining spring or the gap in the loading chute, or just to verify that the shot tube is not clogged, and that there is in fact, an air tube at the base of the muzzle.Wink


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semper fi


Posted By: oneandgone
Date Posted: January-31-2012 at 8:04pm
Good point about the shot tube. I've heard of the silk screened version, but have only seen the one picture on the Daisy-King site. I've pretty well given up on getting one, I think even if one did come available it would quickly be out of my reach in price.


Posted By: rdixon
Date Posted: February-08-2012 at 5:31pm
Information provided by Orin Ribar, Curator, Daisy Museum:
 
The # 111 Model 40 Red Ryder was introduced in 1940 adn produced through 1953.  The cast iron lever was used on models through 1946.  They were changed to die cast aluminum from 1947 through 1949. They changed from wood to plastic stocks in 1950.  Your gun is the Model built in 1945 through 1946.

 

Value depends on condition of gun, what you would be willing to take or what someone would be willing to give.  Value range is $75-$375.

 

Orin Ribar

Curator



Posted By: DRIZ10225
Date Posted: May-04-2012 at 7:04pm
IM LOOKING FOR THE CAST IRON LEVER FOR ONE IF ANYBODO HAS ONE PLEASE CONCACT ME PLEASE.  Cry   BY THE WAY IT IS FOR A 1940 111 MODEL 40. IWOULD LIKE TO FIND ONE AND FINALLY HANG IT ON THE WALL IN A CASE. 
mailto:DRIZ10225@HOTMAIL.COM" rel="nofollow - DRIZ10225@HOTMAIL.COM     DAN RISLEY  PHONE 630-300-8313

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HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS


Posted By: willielumplump
Date Posted: May-08-2012 at 3:55pm
Ihave a cast iron cocking lever for the 111-40; they are....expensive.

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semper fi


Posted By: postal1964
Date Posted: May-28-2012 at 1:55am
trying to find out when my red ryder bb gun was made it says red ryder carbine no 111 model 40 pats 880.555-1,062855 other pats pending daisy mfg plymouth michigan usa the barrel is a silver color so is the trigger the lever is cast iron cast iron  the wood is light in color a blond color and the wood is shinny and smooth so is the red ryder in the stock looks like it was stamped on the stock not burned in the bands are the same silverish color the one on the barrel is peened the one on the forearm is spot welded any info would help thank. can email pics too just give me email


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111 40


Posted By: willielumplump
Date Posted: June-01-2012 at 6:37pm
HI;  the band on the forearm is not welded, it can be easily removed by placing a block of wood on the butt side and gently hammer nudged forward.  If the front sight barrel band is peened, and not spot welded, then you have an original copper banded Red Ryder with the copper plating worn.  The silver appearance of the barrel and the bands is indicative of heavy usage....I have two like the one you have described.  There are three ways that you can proove out my theory: 
once you can remove the forearm band from the specimen, look at the underside of the band and if it is copper colored.... bingo.
 
is the rear sight adjustable?  (might be a little screw forward of the V sight blade).
 
remove the shot tube, and at the very end check out the loadingchute, if it is narrow....bingo.
 
but the key is the peened barrel band front sight and the inside of the forearm band
 


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semper fi


Posted By: postal1964
Date Posted: June-02-2012 at 8:07am
thanks if you go on you tube i put up two videos  of the gun you can look at it, its under- vintage red ryder gun-  or RED RYDER VINTAGE GUN- name scott hanstein first video not that great but the second is better you can see the gun the gun looks unused on the wood, but i'm no expert thanks


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111 40


Posted By: Worfer
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 1:21pm
Thanks for the information i have read already. It appears that I might have one of the ones made between 1947 and 1949. Really old looking with the Red Rider etched in the left side of wood, not iron lever, and doesn't appear to have any adjustments for sights. the barrel end screws out also. My question is there is a small piece infront of the rear sight but does not seem to move. any additional information would be appreciated.
Thanks



Posted By: oldwizzer
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 2:48pm
That part is the spring anchor! Its not suppose to move unless you intend to take the gun apart, and that requires a special fork spring removing tool. 
Ejwills.


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Ejwills


Posted By: the fuse
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 5:23pm
Another thing to consider is that the shot tube and the stock can easily be replaced, by former owners,  if they were worn out or cracked some time in their past. Wood burned stocks are easy to spot with a little experience. Dirt build up can look similar. 

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All I'm for is the liberty of the individual.


Posted By: RedRyderUSA
Date Posted: January-06-2014 at 7:47pm
I have a 1947 variation with aluminum cocking lever but the shot tube has the narrow schute and stock looks burned in. Red ryder logo seems thin. Do the RR logos get rubbed thin with heavy usage?  Pressed in logos seem deep.  I know it hasn't been sanded. Also read on daisy kings site that some guns could have an older shot tube and some could have gotten the cast iron lever. The last No 111 Mod 40 was made March 16th 1954. I have one of the last ones made, March 14th 1954.

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Be Independent!


Posted By: AIRGUNNERMD
Date Posted: January-07-2014 at 2:31pm
Guys,
How would you know the difference between the logo being burnt in or silk screened?
Does the burnt in look black?
Would the silk screened wear off?


Posted By: oldwizzer
Date Posted: January-07-2014 at 3:16pm

Silk screened will look like its painted on, burned on will be indented.

 
Ejwills.


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Ejwills


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: November-07-2018 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by willielumplump willielumplump wrote:

Another feature to check out is the shot tube; at the end with the thread that seats it over the air tube, there is a loading chute that the BBs follow to the loading point; the narrow channel (1940-1942) is indicative of the very early variations, and the wider loading chute (1947-1954) the latter versions.  This gem of information came from Gary Garber's outstanding book, "An Encyclopedia of Daisy Plymouth Guns," which sadly, is out of print. 
Additionally there was a brief time when the Red Ryder logo on the stock was silk-screened, estimated to be about 1000 of them, either in 1941 or 1942, because the machine that burned the logo into the stock had broke down.
 
When I acquire a new/used specimen, I always inspect the shot tube, checking for the BB retaining spring or the gap in the loading chute, or just to verify that the shot tube is not clogged, and that there is in fact, an air tube at the base of the muzzle.Wink
Just wanted to add that the 1946 111-40 Red Ryder with iron lever, non adjustable sights and blued bands, etc. (Variation 4 Daisy King http://www.daisyking.com/history/chronology/Chapter02.swf" rel="nofollow - http://www.daisyking.com/history/chronology/Chapter02.swf ) could have a large or small top stock screw and could also have a narrow or wide BB chute on the shot tube. I have an example of the DK V4 111-40 and it has the narrow chute and  large top stock screw. Powerplant is same as the V1 copper band gun I have. Both very hard hitters compared to new Daisy BB guns.
 

111-40 EARLY RED RYDER "LARGE" TOP STOCK SCREW:

OAL 1-13/16”, 1.817”

Under head shaft length 1-11/16”, 1.680”

Unthreaded shaft length 0.508”, 1/2”

Shaft diameter 0.188”, 3/16”

Head diameter 11/32” , 0.345”

Head thickness 9/64”, 0.140”




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