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DAISY BAYONET

Printed From: Daisy Museum
Category: Daisy Airguns
Forum Name: Questions
Forum Description: To help users communicate about Daisy Aiguns
URL: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7783
Printed Date: June-20-2018 at 3:14am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: DAISY BAYONET
Posted By: RedRam
Subject: DAISY BAYONET
Date Posted: January-05-2018 at 7:30pm
how do you tell an original daisy bayonet from a reproduction.  I just bought a no 40 military bb gun and I want to make sure the bayonet is real or if its fake.



Replies:
Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 8:50am
I think the original has a number on the 'inside' of the blade.
I have two different reproductions and neither of them have the number.
Gary



Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 9:18am
ok thanks,  its amazing how little I can find online about this.  All I can find is that reproductions are made but nothing on how to tell the difference.  


Posted By: Iceman
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 11:07am
I have done a lot of research on this bayonet as when I began my collecting I bought a Model 40 that had a reproduction bayonet.  At that point, I did know enough to know I didn't know.  In other words I did not know that there were original AND reproduction bayonets.  The gentleman that sold me the Model 40 was an expert collector and did not reveal to me that it was a reproduction bayonet, therefore, I paid for a Model 40 that would have had the original bayonet.  I sold with full disclosure the reproduction bayonet and purchased what I believe to be one of the nicest original bayonets anyone can have.  It also has the original rubber tip.  There is no number anywhere on the original bayonet.  I have seen many bayonets since I have been collecting and one sure sign of an original bayonet is on the inside curve or neck of the bayonet.  The original bayonets have a "tab" design where the neck comes together on the inside curve/neck between the round or circle mount and the blade.  If it is a straight line where the metal comes together it is a reproduction.  I have never seen a reproduction bayonet with the "tab" look.  Hope this helps!

Star   


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 11:46am
do you have any pictures you could email me of this tab your talking about?


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 11:52am
from what you are describing mine looks like the real deal so thats a huge relief. I bought it believing it was original but I just want to be positive.  


Posted By: Iceman
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 2:22pm
RedRam

Just type in Daisy Bayonets on google and click on images.  You will see a lot of bayonets images.  The one that shows what I am talking about is J&J Military site.  You can roll over the pic of the bayonet and see the tab I am describing.  Good Luck!


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 5:39pm
I have the real bayonet, but I used to have the reproduction bayonet too.

The reproduction one I used to have, had a number on it. I sold the reproduction one on E-Bay.

The gentleman that made it said he wanted to number each one.

The reproduction one looks a little crude, but I guess it is better than nothing.

I have pictures of my model 40 with the real bayonet and my model 140 for you to view below.

To view:

1) highlight below link.

2) right click and click open link.

https://imgur.com/a/sPdV7


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-06-2018 at 10:13pm
Thanks for all the information and pictures.  I have learned more on this site than anything on google. 


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-07-2018 at 9:15am
Thanks rexron.
The person that told me what an original looks like had it backwards.
I wonder how many variations of the reproductions there are.
One of mine is 10 1/2 inches long not counting the rubber tip and has a thinner blade.
The other is 9 3/4 inches long not counting the tip. 
If someone made numbered ones there must be at least three versions.

Gary


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-08-2018 at 1:37pm
My bayonet has the tab and the same patina and grime as the gun so its legit. It is missing the front site. There is a small hole on top of the barrel where it looks like it would have been screwed into,  did the early style site screw into this?  I have read that later models were fixed so I am assuming this is an early production.  Any thoughts on this and how hard will it be  to find that tiny piece of the puzzle.


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-08-2018 at 11:22pm


In Gary Garber's Book is an example picture below referencing both variations.

Variation 2 on the left (Fixed Front Sight) and Variation 1 on the right (Adjustable Front sight)

Your Daisy Defender model 40 is most likely a variation 1 with the sight removed.

To view picture below:

1) Highlight the entire link.

2) Right click and open link.

https://imgur.com/a/K4dIl



Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-09-2018 at 6:09am
Thanks for the picture, it was very helpful. Mine is the one on the right, minus the site but at least that narrows down the year as well. The one on the left has a round circle type base and mine is square on top like in the picture on the right. You guys have been great,  thanks again.


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-09-2018 at 8:59pm
Might be difficult to find that front sight loose for sale.


-------------
Okay, Black Bart, now you get yours!!!


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-10-2018 at 9:10am
I don't have the name but someone at the Kalamazoo show had them when I was there two years ago. Not sure if they were original or reproductions. I needed one for a #25.
Gary


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-10-2018 at 5:51pm
I plan to go to that show this year.  Its only about 40 minutes south of me so maybe I can find some parts I need for the no 40 and others. I've never gone to it but from what I see online it looks like a good show.


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-11-2018 at 9:59am
May not be much help but in addition to some nice guns he had an organizer type thing with drawers and lots of small parts.
If you just ask around someone will probably be able to direct you to him. 
Everyone there was really great to me on my first visit.
I think you will really enjoy the show even if you don't find a sight, it is amazing.
Gary


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-11-2018 at 7:21pm
Since I am a newbie, what do the stars above my picture mean?


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-12-2018 at 11:14am
Originally posted by RedRam RedRam wrote:

I plan to go to that show this year.  Its only about 40 minutes south of me so maybe I can find some parts I need for the no 40 and others. I've never gone to it but from what I see online it looks like a good show.

You really need to go. Wish I could get there in 40 minutes.
Gary


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-12-2018 at 11:15am
Originally posted by RedRam RedRam wrote:

Since I am a newbie, what do the stars above my picture mean?

I believe they are an indication or your 'level' based on how many posts you have made.
Gary


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-12-2018 at 7:33pm
Do you ever see any 104 double barrels at the Kalamazoo show?  That is next on my "to buy" list.


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-13-2018 at 9:16am
Yes. It seemed to me there was a little bit of everything there.
It was my first visit and I was very impressed.
Had some illness in the family and had to miss last year.
Hope to go back.
Gary


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-17-2018 at 7:15pm
John Ghivoni is the gentleman that was reproducing these bayonets. I  have his phone number if anyone needs one. I have attached pictures of what they look like.

1) Highlight the entire link.

2) Right click and open link.

https://imgur.com/a/TQFMW






-------------
Okay, Black Bart, now you get yours!!!


Posted By: cobalt327
Date Posted: January-18-2018 at 6:44am
Originally posted by rexron911 rexron911 wrote:

John Ghivoni is the gentleman that was reproducing these bayonets. I  have his phone number if anyone needs one. I have attached pictures of what they look like.

1) Highlight the entire link.

2) Right click and open link.

https://imgur.com/a/TQFMW" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/a/TQFMW
I would appreciate his contact number, email cobalt327 at hotmail dot com


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-18-2018 at 9:40am
When i was at Kalamazoo two years ago (I think this is the same person) I bought 3 from him. One for me and two for another collector. He said he was nearing the end of his supply.
Gary


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-18-2018 at 9:52pm
are the daisy double barrel cork guns collectible or just the bb guns


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-19-2018 at 9:20am
I think about anything is collectable, some not as popular as others.
Double barrels have appeal to a lot of different people.
The 410 double barrel is not very common. It is the cork gun version of the 21.
I had one but swapped it off for replacing the broken triggers on my 21.
Gary


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-19-2018 at 6:44pm
Dumb question, is it stamped 410 somewhere on the gun.  I have one but not sure of the year.  Its 30" long with a star on the stock.  I was told its from the 50s


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-19-2018 at 9:02pm
Here are my 3 doubles (top to bottom) 104, 21 and 410 pop gun.

To view picture below:

1) Highlight the entire link.

2) Right click and open link.

https://imgur.com/a/WijTT






-------------
Okay, Black Bart, now you get yours!!!


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-20-2018 at 8:31am
Originally posted by RedRam RedRam wrote:

Dumb question, is it stamped 410 somewhere on the gun.  I have one but not sure of the year.  Its 30" long with a star on the stock.  I was told its from the 50s

Yes, I believe it is marked underneath. The 410 looks just like a 21. Like comparing a 960 pop gun to a 105. Only difference is set up as a pop gun instead of for BB's and perhaps the sights.
Production was around the late 60's early 70's.
Gary


Posted By: Iceman
Date Posted: January-20-2018 at 10:12am
I had a Model 410 and as I recall it is marked Model 410 in the metal rectangle underneath just in front of the trigger.


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-20-2018 at 5:16pm
It was John Ghivoni. I found a JG stamped inside the blade. His is the shorter, heavier constructed bayonet. It is very similar to an original, the other one not so much. Gary


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-22-2018 at 12:51pm
Here is a picture of the bottom of my 1968 Daisy Model 410 Pop Gun

1) Highlight the entire link.

2) Right click and open link.

https://imgur.com/a/dTb4I


-------------
Okay, Black Bart, now you get yours!!!


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-22-2018 at 8:53pm
Daisy model B 1000 shot.  Were they all nickel plated or just some years. Saw one on ebay that was not nickel plated.


Posted By: rexron911
Date Posted: January-23-2018 at 6:05pm
It is possible that the nickle plating wore off and now shows a aged patina.


-------------
Okay, Black Bart, now you get yours!!!


Posted By: RedRam
Date Posted: January-23-2018 at 6:36pm
ok. Just wondering because everything I saw online said it was nickel plated. Lots to learn about Daisy!


Posted By: Bavaria55n
Date Posted: January-24-2018 at 9:35am
Daisy made them in nickel and blue. They started out all nickel, Then Daisy figured out a low cost way to 'blue' them.
Gary  



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