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one shot View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-05-2020 at 2:22pm
After almost 50 years of being missing, the first gun I bought (at age 12) was found. It's a No. 102 Model 36 made in Rogers.Still in great shape, but when i cocked it and pulled the trigger just a little puff of air was expelled.   I put a couple drops of synthetic oil in the oil hole and waited a couple days but same result. Maybe the seals are completely deteriorated?  Not sure....reading the forum, it says these seals are synthetic.  Can I get new ones for this vintage gun?  If so, is it easy to replace the seals w/o  any special tools?    Any assistance or thoughts appreciated.     THX!    

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BSAGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2020 at 2:57pm
Hello and welcome, Bob.  Congrats on finding your trusty shootin' iron after all these decades.  The problem that you describe is very common in old and long-stored Daisys and 100% fixable.  The same thing happened to me last year when I dug my 1962 Model 99 out of my parents' closet.

This is caused by the two seals sticking together with oil that has dried and solidified over the decades.  In these guns, there is one seal (the barrel seal or abutment seal) that is fixed at the front of the air chamber on an abutment into which the shot tube (barrel) screws.  There is another seal (the plunger seal) that is fixed on the front of the plunger.

When you cock the gun, this plunger retracts and creates an air space (the air chamber).  Pulling the trigger releases the plunger and as it rushes forward, the air in the air chamber is s compressed through the air tube and the BB is expelled.

Here is a really good explanation of this along with helpful graphics:  https://www.pyramydair.com/article/A_look_inside_the_BB_gun_powerplant_August_2009/64

Your gun has no power because the two seals are stuck together and because both retract together, there is no pressure created.  Simply oiling as you have tried won't fix this problem.  Been there and done that.  Seals that are so completely welded together must be replaced.

You can get replacement seals on eBay.  Just search for Daisy replacement seals.

Replacing the seals is not too difficult if you are the least little bit handy.  It helps to have a tool (I use two shish-ke-bob skewers) to compress the plunger spring toward the barrel so that you can extract the anchor spring (the small tab that sticks through the top of the receiver) which releases the plunger and it's spring so that it will then slide out of the back of the gun.

Here is a link to a forum thread that has several Daisy schematics. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/grantthekiwisairgunforum/dave-albert-daisy-resource-t3831-s30.html

Scroll to the 4th page for the Model 99 Service Manual.  This has step-by step takedown and reassembly steps.  All the Rogers "wide frame" guns come apart the same as this one.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.     
Be Prepared
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2020 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by one shot one shot wrote:

After almost 50 years of being missing, the first gun I bought (at age 12) was found. It's a No. 102 Model 36 made in Rogers.Still in great shape, but when i cocked it and pulled the trigger just a little puff of air was expelled.   I put a couple drops of synthetic oil in the oil hole and waited a couple days but same result. Maybe the seals are completely deteriorated?  Not sure....reading the forum, it says these seals are synthetic.  Can I get new ones for this vintage gun?  If so, is it easy to replace the seals w/o  any special tools?    Any assistance or thoughts appreciated.     THX!    

To add a bit to BSAGuy's excellent explanation, the tool he mentioned that's used to compress the spring in order to disassemble the powerplant and replace the seals can be made by using two pieces of ~6"-7" long x 5/32" diameter steel rod sold at hardware stores. The rods are put into holes in the end of a piece of wood, secured with JB Weld or other adhesive or the rods can be clamped into the jaws of a duckbill vice grip plier. ETA- see photos below showing the tool.

A note on the seals- your gun could have either 13/16" seals (easy to get) or 7/8" seals. The 7/8" seals are not available separately from Daisy, but the plunger assembly for the 1938B Red Ryder is one source for the piston. The real stickler is the barrel seal that sits at the bottom of the compression chamber- this is the seal that BSAGuy mentioned riding up on the air tube when the gun is cocked, making almost no power. They are a bit of a bother to source, in fact, I have 3 I found and was very glad to have found any of these since they've not been used for nearly 50 years.

There's also a slight chance the spring in your gun has become distorted. It will be evident when you get your gun pulled apart. Even with good seals, if the spring is bad, power will never be up to par. The one shown is from a model 95. It shot... barely!


I have the seals that will work in your gun, regardless if it takes 7/8" or 13/16" seals. I also have a new stock Red Ryder spring or a high performance spring if a spring was needed. If you'd like to discuss this further, send me an email to cobalt 327 at hot mail dot com.

I agree it's great you found your first bought and paid for gun! A model 102 Cub was my first gun, got it Christmas of 1959. I'd love to have it back...

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Mark
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BSAGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2020 at 8:45pm
Bob,

Get your seals and a new spring from Cobalt.  He is a fount of Daisy knowledge and is also super honest and easy to work with.  If you are replacing the seals, go ahead and put in a new more powerful spring from him as well.  That way, your gun will have all new innards and be ready for decades more of faithful service.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2020 at 1:28pm
A BIG thank you to BSAGuy and cobalt327 for the very pertinent info on repairing my vintage model 36.  
I'm gonna refer to your posts and try to repair the gun myself.  I consider myself pretty handy and I enjoy trying to fix stuff.  Not a member of today's 'throw-away' society.  So, I'm gonna start on this next week and I'll keep ya posted.   I don't have a grandson yet, but there is still time.  It will be a very memorable day if I can put this working BB gun in his hands before my Earth time ends.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2020 at 3:40pm
Good luck, Bob.  I fixed my Model 99 without any prior experience.  When you get yours apart, you will see how simple these guns are.  Hardest thing is compressing that plunger spring.  Once you do that, the anchor spring comes out and goes in very easily.

One of the well known members here uses Dexron II automatic transmission fluid to lubricate his seals.  He likes it better than 20 wt oil.  Give it a try.  Very slick and won't gum up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2020 at 9:39pm
Hi Again, BSAGUY & Cobalt327,
Bob here,  I started disassembling my old Model 102 referring to info, etc, that you guys provided. So far, so good. 
Now the hard part - compressing the spring on the power plant.  I can't tell if the spring is distorted but i can just barely see it on the one side.  Also, the anchor spring referred to continues thru the top of the barrel on this 102 and continues as a dovetail front sight.  I believe i'm correct on this observation. 
But back to the spring.  I think i will order one of those plunger tools that are out there on ebay to get that power plant out.  Thanks for the lead on that Cobalt327.   I'm hoping i can get it out and then we can talk seals and/or new spring.   Later.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldwizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 1:08pm
The anchor is the rear sight.

Ejwills.
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2020 at 1:42pm
HOMEMADE TOOLS

BARREL SEAL INSTALLER

CAULKING GUN FOR INSTALLING SPRING ON PLUNGER




SPRING FORK FOR REMOVING AND REPLACING POWERPLANT
The rods are 5/32" diameter x about 7". 

These rods can be used in a piece of wood for the handle, just be sure the exposed rod length is about 6.5" and that they're put into holes deep enough to give adequate support.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one shot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2020 at 8:09pm
Hi Mark, 

Sent you an email back on 3/27.  Did you get it?   thx, bob
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