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Red Ryder 111-40 restoration

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gkmeloy View Drop Down
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    Posted: September-18-2022 at 3:14pm
My 111-40 was made between 1947 and 1951 (aluminum lever, wood for stock) and I received it as a Christmas present in the late 40’s.  It was in poor shape so I’ve tried restoring it.

My problem is getting the main spring out.  My “tool “ is ⅛ inch rod bent to a large hair pin shape with ½ inshore between the legs.  I can get beyond the back of the plunger and measurements show I am a fraction of an inch beyond the spring anchor.  Then I am against something solid that will not give like a spring might.  Does anyone know what I might do or try?
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Airitis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airitis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-18-2022 at 6:15pm
Hey Gib, when you say a fraction of an inch, how far?   Once you hit the spring it usually only moves less than an inch.   Sometimes those old spring retainers can be hard to loosen up. Especially if they haven't come out in forever.
If you can't feel the spring compress at all, make sure you really are engaging the rod against the end of the spring.   
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gkmeloy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gkmeloy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2022 at 9:16am
Thanks Artitis,  My rod is about 1/8 inch beyond where the spring anchor shows thru the top of the receiver behind the rear sight.  How can I be sure the rod is contacting the spring?  Can the spring anchor be stuck to the spring from corrosion and would a few taps with a hammer on the back of the rod tool loosen it?
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RileyRadial View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RileyRadial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2022 at 9:41am
If your rod is 1/8" past anchor have you tried pulling spring anchor out?
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Airitis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airitis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2022 at 11:11am
Originally posted by gkmeloy gkmeloy wrote:

Thanks Artitis,  My rod is about 1/8 inch beyond where the spring anchor shows thru the top of the receiver behind the rear sight.  How can I be sure the rod is contacting the spring?  Can the spring anchor be stuck to the spring from corrosion and would a few taps with a hammer on the back of the rod tool loosen it?

Instead of tapping the spring tool, I might try a little penetrating oil in the crack around the retainer and giving it a few taps
As Riley suggests, also try pulling it out with the spring tool compressing it. You may need a plier. Just don't go all incredible hulk on it. Lol
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MarvMar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarvMar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2022 at 2:03pm
Probably not a great idea, but I've already used a vise grip on the anchor spring and wiggled it out if I couldn't remove the plunger/spring. (Only tried this on parts guns...but it worked.) 
Marv, NW OH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twocompassheads Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2022 at 2:41pm
Gib, 
   I have had this problem on a few 1894 plungers that were stuck or tough to get out and I had to put the barrel muzzle on the floor on a rag and then a rag on the tool and lean over with it on my stomach and push down while holding the spring retainer with a small vise grip to get it out.  Also, one of them had the retainer behind the first wind of the spring so when I went to compress it would not move so that one had to be muscled out.  But your gun is original and from the factory because you've had it since it was new so it should be correct.
  Sometimes tapping the ends of your rods with a hammer on a piece of steel will slightly spread the foot size of the rod to make sure you're sitting on the spring.  
Dennis
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stevec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2022 at 5:54pm
I agree, have done this many times
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2022 at 12:03am
Originally posted by gkmeloy gkmeloy wrote:

Thanks Artitis,  My rod is about 1/8 inch beyond where the spring anchor shows thru the top of the receiver behind the rear sight.  How can I be sure the rod is contacting the spring?  Can the spring anchor be stuck to the spring from corrosion and would a few taps with a hammer on the back of the rod tool loosen it?
Hi Gib

If the spring fork tool is in contact with the spring, you will feel the spring compress as you push down on the tool. The 111-40 has a hefty spring, so it will "push back" with some force as you compress the spring. But as Dennis said, if the gun has been worked on, the spring anchor might have gone through the coils of the spring instead of behind the spring. If that has happened, the spring cannot compress and about the only way to remove the anchor if by yanking it up and out of the top of the gun. The 111-40 has a scalloped spring anchor, so it can be hard to get a good enough grip to remove the anchor and it will take vice grips to have any chance of success.

When you are inserting the tool, it's easy for the legs to slip past the end of the spring. because the tool has to slide past the end plate of the plunger tube where the trigger latches onto it, and that can cause the legs to skew outward, allowing them to miss the end of the spring. This will almost always happen if the legs are spaced too close together in the tool- and if your legs are just 1/2" apart, this is almost surely what is happening. When using round rods, make the legs 5/8" apart center to center and you'll be good to go.

The largest diameter round rod that I recommend is 5/32" That is a hard size to find unless you go online, so most people will end up using 1/8" rods that can be easily found at Home Depot, Ace, Lowes, etc.

If it will help, I can send you a pair of 5/32" rods that you can use in a simple block of wood, or clamped in the jaws of a duckbill vice grip. My email is on my profile page, click here: http://forum.daisymuseum.com/member_profile.asp?PF=9793
You'll need the block of wood and a drill with a 5/32" bit. Try to get the holes parallel. A drill press is easiest, but it can be done by hand, although there may be some trial and error.

I'll attach a photo showing a few ideas for making a tool from what you may have on hand.


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gkmeloy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gkmeloy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-21-2022 at 2:32pm
Ah, my saga continues, many good suggestions and I thank all of you.  Cobalt, my fork is 1/2" ID so will be 5/8" center to center with 1/8" rod.  I have certainly felt the fork slipping past the spring, both below the spring so the fork extends far in and beside the spring so the fork wedges slightly.  My fork is like the doubled over 1/8" rod but the doubled over end is not symmetrical and I wonder if I should make a wooden handle fork.  I don't think I have ever felt the spring push back.  I'll keep trying.
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