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Red Ryder No. 111 Model 40 restoration

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Kansan View Drop Down
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    Posted: May-19-2019 at 4:52pm
Hi, this is my first post. I found the forum while searching for how to repair my BB gun. As the title indicates, I have a Red Ryder No. 111 model 40. It was my grandpa's, then my dad's, and was passed to me when I was 10 years old and I shot the heck out of it growing up. It still works but the lever won't cock unless I point the barrel straight down.

From reading this forum, I gather that it was made in the 40's. It's wood stock, wood handgrip, I'm not really sure what the lever is made out of. It looks more substantial than the metal receiver but I'm not sure if it is cast-iron. There is a spot that's rubbed off that looks silvery so I would guess aluminum. It is missing the barrel band. The Red Ryder logo and letters are on the left side of the stock.

My question is twofold. First, does anyone have any idea of why it is not cocking normally? Second, is there any place I can send this rifle to get a full restoration? I imagine it probably could use new springs, gaskets, barrel band, or other restoration efforts. I am not sure if that would ruin the value, but the value to me would be to hand down a functional BB gun to my own son someday. He is now four and I could see him really enjoying it like I did when he gets a little bit older.

Thanks for the information and thanks for this wonderful forum site, I've really enjoyed reading other people's stories and ideas.
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BSAGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2019 at 6:52pm
Hello and welcome, Seth.  Great to have you here on the DaisyTalk board.  You are in the right place to learn about your heirloom.

If you are handy, you might want to take as stab at restoring the gun yourself.  They really are pretty simple once you open them up.

To check the lever, put a magnet on it.  If it sticks, it's cast iron.  If not, it's aluminum.

That's odd that it only cocks when you hold it muzzle down.  I can't account for that.

You can find a barrel band on eBay or try jgairguns.com.  They have tons of Daisy parts.

Check this link for a good synopsis of the Red Ryder variations over the years.  This will help you pin down the date of your gun - http://www.daisyking.com/history/chronology2.htm

Try this link and go to page 4 for the Model 99 manual/schematics.  Your Red Ryder has a different trigger and spring arrangement, but the plunger removal is identical.  Once you get the plunger out, you can see if the spring is OK and if the seals need to be replaced.


You need some way to compress the plunger spring so that you can take the spring anchor out of the top of the receiver.  I use two flat shish kebab skewers, one on each side of the plunger.











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 39hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2019 at 8:32pm
Seth, if you would like a list of Daisy Gunsmiths and part suppliers, let me know, my email is on my profile.  As to your cocking problem, could be a very weak or broken trigger spring.  Try cocking it while pushing the trigger forward.
Pat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2019 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Kansan Kansan wrote:

Hi, this is my first post. I found the forum while searching for how to repair my BB gun. As the title indicates, I have a Red Ryder No. 111 model 40. It was my grandpa's, then my dad's, and was passed to me when I was 10 years old and I shot the heck out of it growing up. It still works but the lever won't cock unless I point the barrel straight down.

From reading this forum, I gather that it was made in the 40's. It's wood stock, wood handgrip, I'm not really sure what the lever is made out of. It looks more substantial than the metal receiver but I'm not sure if it is cast-iron. There is a spot that's rubbed off that looks silvery so I would guess aluminum. It is missing the barrel band. The Red Ryder logo and letters are on the left side of the stock.

My question is twofold. First, does anyone have any idea of why it is not cocking normally? Second, is there any place I can send this rifle to get a full restoration? I imagine it probably could use new springs, gaskets, barrel band, or other restoration efforts. I am not sure if that would ruin the value, but the value to me would be to hand down a functional BB gun to my own son someday. He is now four and I could see him really enjoying it like I did when he gets a little bit older.

Thanks for the information and thanks for this wonderful forum site, I've really enjoyed reading other people's stories and ideas.
Welcome!

I'd be willing to bet the trigger spring is out of position or gone altogether. Did you have the stock off the gun recently?

The spring pushes the trigger forward allowing the trigger to engage the sear on the plunger tube. By holding the muzzle down, gravity is doing the job of the spring.

The spring locates on a protrusion on the back side of the trigger and is held by a hole drilled into the end of the buttstock. Care has to be used when replacing the stock when it's been removed to be sure the spring aligns to the protrusion. The arrow below show where the spring should be seen. 



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Kansan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 12:38pm
Wow, I knew I had asked the question in the right place! Sure enough, when I hold the trigger forward it cocks just fine. There is a spring behind the trigger but it doesn't seem to be doing much as the trigger just wiggles back and forth unless it is cocked. So I guess at a minimum I need to fix / replace the trigger spring and the barrel band.

BSAGuy, a magnet did indeed stick to my lever so I guess it is cast iron. The chronology site looked like it would have the right info to date it but it looked like the page with the Daisy chronology was empty (?) I'll look at some of the previous threads in this forum as I recall this model has been discussed before.

39Hunter, I will send you an email shortly to ask for that parts list/gunsmith list. I am in the military and it is moving day today so I'm not sure how far I will get on the repair job until I get to my next duty assignment in a few weeks.

Thank you guys for the quick responses and accurately pinpointing my problem. It's great to find a community online that appreciates old Red Ryder BB gun's. The day I got this BB gun as a kid was one of the happiest days of my life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 1:50pm
Hi Seth,

To get to the trigger spring, just remove the stock.  it sounds like the spring is either (i) not engaged on the small protrusion that Cobalt mentioned, or (ii) it was not properly seated in the stock hole and it has slipped out.  The stock hole may have some trash in it that keeps the spring from going deep enough to set.

Either of these is easy to fix with just a careful replacement of the stock while keeping an eye on the spring to make sure it stays engaged on both ends as you slide the stock into position.

As to the DaisyKing site, it uses Abobe Flash.  If you have Adobe Flash, that site will work for you.  

  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldwizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 3:33pm
he 1940's - "Howdy Podner. My Name’s Red Ryder!"


With the ground work firmly laid by the innovative promotions of the 1930’s, Daisy was ready to launch into its most successful promotion ever; the Daisy Red Ryder! 

Based on the popular comic strip western hero, the new gun was introduced in the spring of 1940 and produced until mid 1942 when Daisy’s production was converted to the war effort. Following the war, the air gun was reintroduced in November 1945. By 1949 it had become so popular that more than one million units were sold in a single year; a sales figure unheard of at the time! In fact, the Red Ryder had become so popular that on more than one occasion mail was received at the Daisy offices in Plymouth, Michigan addressed simply to the “Red Ryder Company”.

The Red Ryder was and sill is the best-known BB gun ever built and a special display of Red Ryder BB guns at the Daisy Airgun Museum follows the progression of the Red Ryder over the years.

It was also in the late 40’s that Daisy introduced the famous penny pack of BBs wound in a long roll of individual cellophane segments allowing a youngster to tear off as many packs as his finances would support.


The War Years 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 4:43pm
There's a pretty good chance your gun may be the much sought after 1940-'41 111-40 Red Ryder that has copper plated bands. If the front band/front sight has small dimples as shown below on the bottom gun in the photo below (photo is from Daisy King site mentioned earlier), it's the one I'm talking about. This gun will also have a screw to adjust elevation on the rear sight. The forearm band would have also been copper plated, There are other small differences you will see on 111-40s from the first two years, but those are the main ones, including the cast iron lever.
 
There was also a 1946 R111-40 that had the cast iron lever but it has blued steel bands and a non adjustable rear sight. It was actually made in les quantity than the first 111-40 but everyone wants a "copper band" Red Ryder, so it sells for more than the more scarce 1946. The sight band on the 1946 and all other 111-40s later than 1941 will look like the top gun in the photo- notice it's been resistance welded as opposed to peened to hold it on. The copper band was peened on to keep the heat of welding from destroying the appearance of the copper plating.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldwizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 6:20pm
From the description of your Red Ryder I would date it from late 1945 to late 1946 or early 1947 when they changed the cocking lever to aluminium. If it has the copper bands 1940-1942.

Ejwills. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kansan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 6:32pm
Thanks guys. I went to the Daisy chronology page with my desktop that has flash player on it and was able to flip through a few pages before I had to unplug the computer and let the Packers pack it up. Today is moving day… But I'm taking the Red Ryder with me as it is too valuable to allow the Packers to ship it, ha ha. My phone will have to suffice for my internet for a little while.

While I have never taken off the stock myself, I did notice that somebody, probably my little brother when I went to college, replaced one of the screws holding the receiver onto the stock with an ill fitting nut and bolt. Which makes the stock a little wobbly. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what is causing the spring to be out of alignment.

So I did as BSAGuy suggested and went to JGairguns.com and ordered a replacement screw. I also ordered a couple of washers and bolts even though it does not appear as any of the other screws have washers or bolts on them at this time. Maybe they used to and have all fallen off? I also ordered a new trigger spring just in case. I didn't see any forearm barrel bands for sale there so I will look on eBay.

Cobalt327, I appreciate the pictures and the explanation. I definitely have the top version, that is to say the spot welded one not the copper one. I guess that means that mine was made in 1946. This one will never be for sale so the monetary value doesn't mean a whole lot to me but the information about the date is very valuable and quite interesting. My grandfather turned 18 in 1946. It was my impression and my dad's understanding that my grandpa had it at a younger age. But I see that that might not be the case. My grandfather passed away two years ago but my dad is going to ask my Great uncle next week if he remembers anything about it.
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