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RR 111-40 power loss

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Bryan View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-09-2018 at 12:24pm
Hey guys I have a pre war RR that I was able to get new seals and air tube for. I soaked the seals overnight before installing them on the plunger assembly and also trimmed the air tube to proper length as it was a touch long and wouldn't allow BBs to feed into the shot tube. I reassembled the rifle and let it sit with a touch more oil in it overnight again and after I shot the excess oil out I loaded in a few BBs and it only shot maybe 50ft. The spring seemed in good shape and still stiff when I had it apart. Are there any other factors that could cause it to have low power? Or maybe the new seals are the culprit somehow?
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Daily shooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daily shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 1:33pm
A few thoughts: what was the fps before the repair? If this is the first trial then;
Did you change the abutment seal?, when cocking, if you hear a grinding noise, the mainspring is
warped and is binding on the plunger. Will a BB roll freely down the shot tube or is it being impeded
some how? And it's always a good idea to recheck the last repair to see if you overlooked anything.
I'm sure you will get many more good suggestions as there are some real Daisy experts on this
forum. Good luck.
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Bryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 4:08pm
I'm unsure of the fps prior to the repair as I received it with worn seals and no air tube. I changed out both leather seals and it cocks freely no grinding or anything. The spring is perfectly straight when I had it all apart. Also BBs do freely roll down the shot tube and stop at the little spring on the bottom. I rechecked it before I posted originally but I just can't figure it out and was hoping to get more insight. Thanks for your input
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Rick Cates View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Cates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 5:01pm
Bryan, I make my own seals for my Red Ryders and fit them to the receiver as I go to install the assembly back into the receiver.  I assume we are talking leather seals.
Did you need to force the assembly into the receiver prior to compressing the assembly to install the abutment piece that holds the assembly in place?
If you had to force the assembly into the receiver your seals may be a little oversized.
I use the feel test on mine.  Just a good drag into the receiver and not a real tight fit works good for me.
If the seals are to tight they fail to slide quickly and thus impede compression and the bb travel out the tube.
My first rebuild attempt I had the same issue.
I had to disassemble and start over on that one.
You might wait a day or so and see if the seals take a better set to the bore.  Do put a little oil down the shot tube to make sure the seals are resting in oil and let them set for that day or two.
One other issue could be if the bore where the seals ride is not smooth.
I always use a brass bore brush on the seal surface in the receiver prior to assembly.  Then clean the bore up with solvent followed by oil.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck with the repair.
Rick in TX

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Airitis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airitis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 6:04pm
Here are a couple random thoughts. Even a straight spring can drag on the plunger tube. Polishing the inside of the spring and the outside of the tube may help. Light coating of oil of course.

Was your gun made for steel or lead BBs? I noticed you said there was a spring retainer at the bottom of the shot tube. These days there can be inconsistent BBs depending on some manufacturers.

Finally, thick oil in the shot tube instead of a super light coat can actually build a head in front of a BB slowing it down. Less is more.     Just a thought.
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Daily shooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daily shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 7:16pm
And speaking of oil, please use only non detergent 20 or 30 weight motor oil.
No 3 in 1 or fancy synthetic stuff as they are bad for seals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 8:27pm
All good replies here.
If you came to me w/this problem, my first thought would be that the barrel seal (the stationary one that rests against the abutment) is following the plunger seal back up the tube when you cock the gun. Obviously the barrel seal has to stay tight against the abutment through the entire cycle.
 
Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2018 at 9:02pm
Rick, the seal wasn't super tight nor was it really easy to go in. It's my first time replacing them so I'm unsure as to how it should feel :/ and I did clean it out with a bore brush. I cleaned up the entire gun when I picked it up.

Airitis, I actually applied I real light coat of grease to the coil/plunger instead of oil. I wonder if that would make a difference? The rifle was made for steel BBs it's a copper banded red ryder from the early 1940s.

Daily shooter, yes I only used non detergent 30w in it

Cobalt, from what I can see down the barrel when I have the gun cocked it looks as though the abutment seal is still there and not moved down with the air tube. I will probably have to pull it apart again just to make sure. You guys think maybe the seals themselves could be off? In terms of sizing or the hole thats drilled in the abutment seal for the air tube? I noticed that it wasn't snug (for lack of a better term) and the air tube slid through it really easy before I assembled it

In the next day or so I'll tear it apart again and scratch my head trying to figure out what's wrong. And double checking all of y'alls suggestions. Just wanna get this classic running again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2018 at 2:32am
When you compressed the spring in order to insert the spring retainer, did it take a good amount of force to compress it? 
 
A light amount of grease on the spring won't kill the velocity but it will lower it somewhat. How much depends on the grease used and how much was applied. Less is better, I use none but that's me. Daisy doesn't either for that matter. But that's not what's causing it to shoot the way you've described.
 
The synthetic seal guns have a snug fit between the barrel seal ID and air tube OD. Not tight, just snug. On them, if the seal is worn out enough that the air tube is a sloppy fit, MV will be lower than it should be but will still shoot further than 50'.
 
If the seals are fitting in the tube correctly and the barrel seal is staying against the abutment, etc. it wouldn't surprise me to find that it just needed to soak in more oil.
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Bryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2018 at 1:43pm
Yeah it took a good amount of force to compress, I had a hard time compressing and holding it with one hand and putting it pin in with the other. When I disassemble it I'll wipe the grease off the spring. It isn't much but didn't think it would hurt. I'm hoping it may just need more oil but I feel like I've already used alot. But this is my first time ever working on leather sealed rifles so I'll try that again after I look at the internals again
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