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RR 111-40 power loss

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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2018 at 3:12pm
To get the oil where it needs to be, I use a length of K&S brass hobby tubing with a piece of silicone weed trimmer gas line on one end. That end goes over the end of the air tube and oil is put in through the tubing. I use my lungs to blow the oil through into the compression chamber. It helps to partially cock the lever, just enough to separate the plunger seal from the barrel seal. You can use a small block of wood, etc. to prop the lever open while doing this. Alternate between leaning the gun barrel up and barrel down so the oil sits on both seals.
 
There's nothing wrong with putting the oil down the shroud with the shot tube removed- as long as the air tube isn't a tight fit to the barrel seal ID. But the lever still should be slightly opened to let the oil into the space between the two seals. If you don't crack the lever, the oil will just sit against the back side of the barrel seal and a small amount will find its way to the plunger seal- so unless you are re-oiling a previously oil soaked seal, this way can take a long time to fully saturate the leather.
 
You will know you're getting there when you can hear the oil suction sound as you work the lever (no need to fully cock it but if you happen to, just dry fire it). After all this oil it will take quite a bit of shooting before the gun settles down, so be patient.
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Bryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2018 at 5:10pm
Ohhhh I didn't think it actually had to go into the air tube itself. I've only been putting in down the barrel with the shot tube removed. I'd half cock the lever a little to try and get some oil to the plunger seal but that obviously isn't working. So maybe the plunger seal is still relatively dry? Ok I'll have to find a piece of tubing and give that a try before I take it all apart again. That's really great advice. I'll give that a shot for sure if I can get my hands on tubing
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2018 at 11:46pm
You need a piece of flexible tubing that is a snug fit when pushed over a 5/64" drill bit shank- that's the OD of the air tube. After you put the flexible tubing onto the piece of brass tube, cut it off short enough that it can be pushed onto the air tube without it flexing too much, else this can turn into an exercise in frustration. On mine I have the flex tube cut 1/4" from the end of the brass tube. Put the flex tube on the brass tube either dry or use adhesive so it doesn't slip up the tubing when you push it onto the air tube. Helps to oil the air tube end of the flex tubing, just not the brass end. This will help it go on easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2018 at 12:41pm
Ok I was able to get some tubing and got it on and put some oil down the tube with the lever half cocked with a piece of wood holding it. Hopefully letting it sit a day or so will allow the plunger seal to soak in some oil now. Fingers crossed that this will be the trick. I really appreciate all your help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2018 at 3:15pm
You can swap ends standing up after awhile so both seals get the benefit of the oil. I've got fingers crossed, too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2018 at 6:39pm
Been busy with work and stuff the last couple days. Oiled it and have been flipping it stock down, then muzzle down each day. It's got a little more power now but still isn't right. I'm gonna have to disassemble it Thursday when I'm off work and see what the deal is with it. It does sort of look like maybe the abutment seal is moving some when the gun is being cocked. It's hard to tell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2018 at 11:43am
So I think it may be the abutment seal, when I took the plunger assembly out the abutment seal basically came out with it. It doesn't stay in the gun. May have to purchase new seals for it eventhough I just got these from JGAirguns 😔
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2018 at 1:05pm
The barrel seal is a weak point of an otherwise brilliant design, IMHO. That it has no attachment other than the factory staking sometimes makes replacement iffy. You might get away with re staking it if you're careful not to pierce the tube. On guns that use synthetic barrel seals I have used weatherstrip adhesive to hold them in position when re staking wasn't practical. Never glued a leather barrel seal in a gun but I'd imagine using an adhesive after soaking it in oil would be a losing proposition.
 
If I had the gun, I'd replace the leather barrel seal with a synthetic seal from a model 25 to see how that worked. They have the correct ID to air tube OD fit- snug w/o being too tight. Loose isn't good for power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2018 at 3:34pm
I'm not familiar with how they are staked in and I feel like I'd likely ruin the gun if I tried. I put the original barrel seal back in it (it was in better shape compared to the deteriorated plunger seal) and it went in tight. I'll let it sit with some oil again over night to see if it's better or worse. If that still doesn't put me in the right direction then I'll have to try the synthetic seal like you said
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2018 at 4:14pm
Good idea to try the old seal, hopefully it will at least stay in position all the way through the firing cycle to give you an idea of how the piston is working.
 
I wish I'd have mentioned it earlier in case you could have used the tip (and you may have done something similar, anyway) but I have a length of tubing with the end plugged to use as a seal "driver". With it I can use a dead blow to firmly yet carefully seat the barrel seal into position. This works especially well on guns that have deep factory staking, to get the seal fully seated. If you do anything like this, don't use a ton of force with the hammer/mallet- you want to seat the seal but you don't want to loosen the abutment. I've never had a problem with the abutment moving or loosening, but better to be safe.
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