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Model 25 - Three Piece Spring

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BSAGuy View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-10-2019 at 5:53pm
So I took my first excursion inside a 1953 Model 25 today.  I struggled with how to get it all apart and the plunger out, but eventually figured it out.

Gun cocked and fired, but no air passing.  The plunger spring looked kinked, but on closer inspection, turned out to be broken in two places.

New springs and seals will be  ordered tomorrow.

  
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cobalt327 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2019 at 6:51pm
Bummer! That's one of the hard to find flat wire $prings Daisy used during the leather seal era. Where are you getting a replacement from? I ask because a new production model 25 spring is way weaker than this 'un.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2019 at 7:37pm
I was thinking about Tony McDaniel at TMac's.  I need new seals for this one and the Buzz Barton that I also took apart this weekend, plus some other stuff.

Do you think the extra power spring I bought from you would be OK in this 25?  I don't want to overpower it.

I am still figuring these guns out  Is the abutment the only thing that stops the forward motion of the plunger?  Would an overly strong spring run the risk of popping the abutment out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2019 at 8:08pm
We spec'd a model 25 flat wire spring a while back, it had an 8.5" free length, the wire was 0.115" radial thickness x 0.0720" axial thickness, OD was 0.785", had 30 total coils . Does this match what you have?
 
To know if a spring "A" can be used to replace a spring "B", both spring's free length, wire size, spring OD, coil count, installed length, and the max travel (max working length) all need to all be considered to know what the overall result will be.
 
What size (OD) was the Buzz Barton seals, or will you not know until the new parts reach you? What did the spring and plunger look like?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSAGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2019 at 8:45pm
Cobalt,  I posted pics of the Model 195 spring and plunger compared to the Model 99 here:


On the seals, I am guessing 13/16".  The old ones were nothing but crumbly dust when I took it apart.

I would assume that Daisy would use seals that were the same in all guns for manufacturing simplicity.  Is that correct?

Here are pics of the Model 195 plunger end and air tube:








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobalt327 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2019 at 10:41am
Thanks for the clear photos, nicely done.
 
So far I know of only 3 different OD seals: whatever size the 1894 uses (smaller than 13/16"), 13/16", and 7/8", so it could be to simplify manufacturing (tooling, inventory). I have no idea why the 1894 uses a smaller, tapered compression chamber. The change from 13/16" that had been in use since the beginning to 7/8" might have been to get the most performance from a weaker spring that was used in many Rogers guns but that may not be correct. The 13/16" piston and barrel seal are still used in the 25 to this day alongside the 7/8" piston used in the 1938B RR, 105B Buck, 1998 pink ryder, etc.
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